Basketball

» markbarnes19 - All-time NBA Players

Who are the all-time best NBA players? Do you agree with Suite101? Who is left off of the list?

-- posted by markbarnes19

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» ryno33 - All-time NBA Players

In response to All-time NBA Players posted by markbarnes19:

Magic Johnson! You can't leave Magic out of the picture, he was a five time NBA champ, three time NBA MVP and probably the best passer of all time! 19.5 ppg, 11.2 apg, and 7.2 rpg!

-- posted by ryno33

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» markbarnes19 - All-time NBA Players

In response to All-time NBA Players posted by ryno33:

Hey Ryno, Magic is a great suggestion. Since we only ranked 3 of the all-time NBA players, though, it was tough to get him in.

I can't put Magic ahead of Bird. Magic probably should have been on the just missed list, though.

Thanks for chiming in.

-- posted by markbarnes19

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» vito2 - Best All Time

Mark you said "If Oscar Robertson had been a little better shooter and won a few more titles, he would finish in a virtual tie with Michael Jordan on our Top 3 NBA Players of All-time list."
Well you got Oscar's FG% wrong when you listed it at 44% when it is at .485!! Oscar could never win a title in Cincinnati when they never had a center who could match up in any way with Bill Russell of the Celtics and could never get by them in the playoffs. For that matter he never had a Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy or a Nate Thurmond who were some of the dominant centers of the day. When Rick Barry hooked up with Nate Thurmond they went far as did Jerry West when he and Baylor finally played with Chamberlain.
As soon as Robertson he got traded to Milwaukee he finally got a center to feed in Jabbar... and they won the title in '70-'71. Now Jordan didn't go anywhere until Phil Jackson built a team around him. He also could get by the Celtics or Pistons before Jackson came aboard. For that matter Jordan couldn't pass as well as Oscar or Magic(in fact he never looked to pass until Jackson schooled him) and really didn't make the players around him better as did Oscar, Magic or Bird. Another thing is that Robertson was out on the court almost the whole game every game(look it up)...his FG% and FT% would've been even better if he ever got a rest!!
I know I seem to be running down Jordan but...the big publicity machine of the NBA didn't really get going until the 1980's and with Jordan I think it reached it's zenith. People didn't follow the NBA (no cable) like they do now and Oscar Robertson wasn't known outside basketball circles like Jordan. Anyway Jordan was great but I don't think he was better than Robertson, Bird or Magic.

-- posted by vito2

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» vito2 - All-time NBA Players

Mark you said "If Oscar Robertson had been a little better shooter and won a few more titles, he would finish in a virtual tie with Michael Jordan on our Top 3 NBA Players of All-time list."
Well you got Oscar's FG% wrong when you listed it at 44% when it is at .485!! Oscar could never win a title in Cincinnati when they never had a center who could match up in any way with Bill Russell of the Celtics and could never get by them in the playoffs. For that matter he never had a Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy or a Nate Thurmond who were some of the dominant centers of the day. When Rick Barry hooked up with Nate Thurmond they went far as did Jerry West when he and Baylor finally played with Chamberlain.
As soon as Robertson got traded to Milwaukee he finally got a center to feed in Jabbar... and they won the title in '70-'71. Now Jordan didn't go anywhere until Phil Jackson built a team around him. He also could get by the Celtics or Pistons before Jackson came aboard. For that matter Jordan couldn't pass as well as Oscar or Magic(in fact he never looked to pass until Jackson schooled him) and really didn't make the players around him better as did Oscar, Magic or Bird. Another thing is that Robertson was out on the court almost the whole game every game(look it up)...his FG% and FT% would've been even better if he ever got a rest!!
I know I seem to be running down Jordan but...the big publicity machine of the NBA didn't really get going until the 1980's and with Jordan I think it reached it's zenith. People didn't follow the NBA (no cable) like they do now and Oscar Robertson wasn't known outside basketball circles like Jordan. Anyway Jordan was great but I don't think he was better than Robertson, Bird or Magic.

-- posted by vito2

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» vito2 - All-time NBA Players

In response to All-time NBA Players posted by markbarnes19:

» vito2 - All-time NBA Players

Mark you said "If Oscar Robertson had been a little better shooter and won a few more titles, he would finish in a virtual tie with Michael Jordan on our Top 3 NBA Players of All-time list."
Well you got Oscar's FG% wrong when you listed it at 44% when it is at .485!! Oscar could never win a title in Cincinnati when they never had a center who could match up in any way with Bill Russell of the Celtics and could never get by them in the playoffs. For that matter he never had a Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy or a Nate Thurmond who were some of the dominant centers of the day. When Rick Barry hooked up with Nate Thurmond they went far as did Jerry West when he and Baylor finally played with Chamberlain.
As soon as Robertson got traded to Milwaukee he finally got a center to feed in Jabbar... and they won the title in '70-'71. Now Jordan didn't go anywhere until Phil Jackson built a team around him. He also could get by the Celtics or Pistons before Jackson came aboard. For that matter Jordan couldn't pass as well as Oscar or Magic(in fact he never looked to pass until Jackson schooled him) and really didn't make the players around him better as did Oscar, Magic or Bird. Another thing is that Robertson was out on the court almost the whole game every game(look it up)...his FG% and FT% would've been even better if he ever got a rest!!
I know I seem to be running down Jordan but...the big publicity machine of the NBA didn't really get going until the 1980's and with Jordan I think it reached it's zenith. People didn't follow the NBA (no cable) like they do now and Oscar Robertson wasn't known outside basketball circles like Jordan. Anyway Jordan was great but I don't think he was better than Robertson, Bird or Magic.
-- posted by vito2

-- posted by vito2

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» Phil Partington - Best All Time

In response to Best All Time posted by vito2:

First, great points. Second, I'm not sure I think Jordan wasn't better than Magic and Bird, but that isn't what I'm trying to argue anyway. What I will say is that I think comparing players outside of their era is kind of pointless, because the game changes so much over that amount of time. It isn't comparing apples to apples. The easiest example would be to try to compare Shaq with Wilt. Obviously, no one has been nearly as dominant statistically as Wilt was in his time. Does that mean he could dominate the same way now? Doubtful...especially if you consider that most centers he played against were in the 6-7 to 6-10 range and barely weighed 200lbs (if that). He was 7-2 240lbs. People will then say that by that reasoning Yao should do better than he does, but a 7-6 300lbs center going up against 7-footers who weigh in the neighborhood of 250lbs - 275lbs on a nightly basis is not the same as a 7-2 240-pounder going up against Dolph Schayes or other 6-8 sized players. Hell, Bill Russell was only 6-9 and about 215lbs!

My point here in this overly long explanation is that I don't believe in comparing apples to oranges. The Big O was amazing and so were Magic, Bird and MJ. Comparing the last three is tough, too, b/c they peaked at different times. I still say Jordan was the greatest and it has more to do with his resolve than it does his passing ability. Obviously Jordan before Phil Jackson is the one folks remember. Though, he was still a damn good player pre-Phil Jackson. He didn't pass as well like you said, but he still scored in the mid 30 ppg range while shooting at or above 50% most of the time. That tells me he scored his points WITHIN the offense and didn't force the ball as much as people think. That, or, he was just incredible at making acrobatic shots. I think it's a little of both.

At any rate, we could compare til we choke, but I tend to leave players from different eras out of it, because it's really hard to measure stats outside of their context era.

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